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ICC station level shields. |
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
|  Posted: 2015-05-08 00:31
Senti, your not wrong but....
Problem is if 1 player attacks icc planet they will get out an LS because they know 1 player can do nothing to fight one. Problem does not need to have any more examples, there should be no ship that cannot be defeated by another single ship. Nothing should have that power
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2015-05-08 09:35
Quote:
On 2015-05-08 00:31, Jhomes wrote:
Senti, your not wrong but....
Problem is if 1 player attacks icc planet they will get out an LS because they know 1 player can do nothing to fight one. Problem does not need to have any more examples, there should be no ship that cannot be defeated by another single ship. Nothing should have that power
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Depends on what ship each player is using. While I certainly wouldn't mind a single smaller ship being able to take out a Station because I don't fly anything bigger than a Cruiser, I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be rather upset if their Stations were getting taken out by a lone Frigate.
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-05-08 12:55
I WILL ASSUME YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE SO.... If i must repeat myself then ok, There are a handful of dreadnoughts that can damage an LS alone, but they cannot keep up the firepower long anough to get shields past 30% or so. Battle class stations also cannot defeat one as their missiles cannot deal the damage needed and if you jump up close to LS to fight it you will be able to damage it but it will always win the close fight. As i have already stated it is FACT ICC station level shields easily can regen 17k - 20k hp each second in combat, therefore a ship must be able to deal more than 17k-20k each second in combat. I am not quite sure why people insist on being intentionally dense on some of these posts.
If you had read any of these posts you would know that i said icc station level shield regen needs reduced by 25% only which would allow it to remain powerful but keep the game possible if a situation comes up as 1 icc player vs 1 player of ugto or kluth which currently LS cannot be defeated alone. NOBODY ESP ME EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SMALL SHIPS OR FRIGATES BEING ABLE TO DAMAGE ONE.
Please people i am begging you to only post on this topic if you have actually read it from begining and understand what is even being talked about here.
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Senti-Onikawa
Admiral
Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2015-05-08 22:07
Quote:
On 2015-05-08 12:55, Jhomes wrote:
I WILL ASSUME YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE SO.... If i must repeat myself then ok, There are a handful of dreadnoughts that can damage an LS alone, but they cannot keep up the firepower long anough to get shields past 30% or so. Battle class stations also cannot defeat one as their missiles cannot deal the damage needed and if you jump up close to LS to fight it you will be able to damage it but it will always win the close fight. As i have already stated it is FACT ICC station level shields easily can regen 17k - 20k hp each second in combat, therefore a ship must be able to deal more than 17k-20k each second in combat. I am not quite sure why people insist on being intentionally dense on some of these posts.
If you had read any of these posts you would know that i said icc station level shield regen needs reduced by 25% only which would allow it to remain powerful but keep the game possible if a situation comes up as 1 icc player vs 1 player of ugto or kluth which currently LS cannot be defeated alone. NOBODY ESP ME EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SMALL SHIPS OR FRIGATES BEING ABLE TO DAMAGE ONE.
Please people i am begging you to only post on this topic if you have actually read it from begining and understand what is even being talked about here.
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I won't go all-out about how you're wrong because I've seen the LS in play, have been part of major pushes where it was our most common weapon, and quite frankly, the feeling of power one associates with such a big cannon is really appealing. I would even go so far as to say that most will use it as the first/last resort simply because it's a tank better than ye olde tanks are. Artillery is designed to generate advantage, to maintain that advantage, and push with it. If this were old DS where advantage was the name of the game, I would dismiss your post completely. However, we are now dealing with a MUCH smaller map; this means a weapon dedicated to larger maps shouldn't be permitted at all.
But they are, and peo[;e seem to still use them without taking into account why they existed to begin with. I don't want to be considered a "fun nazi" but if we want to balance out station usage at all, we need to assert one major point: they are abusable. If the game ever regains the popularity it once had I might suggest unrestricted usage, but as things stand I would like to suggest that stations on all sides be usable only when a faction is down to one planet. Once they regain some territory/advantage it should be that stations become locked again and cannot be accessed until the situation arises again. I would also argue that at the time when the faction needs advantage only 2 stations can be used at a time. This doesn't necessarily fix the issue of the line station having ridiculous regen, but it DOES make it so ICC needs to dedicate themselves to building planets/using their other options when they don't have any reason to be pushing.
I realize this might seem like presenting unfair advantage to another faction, but keep in mind that DESPITE the ICC having superior defensive capabilities and supremacy in maneuverability, our weapons are almost a joke. If you're luth and you keep getting wrecked by ICC, you're doing something wrong. If you're UGTO and you're getting stomped by us, it's your own fault. A strong defense and maneuverability doesn't win fights if the offense has no bite. Most days, ICC might as well be flying wheelbarrows.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2015-05-09 10:25
Quote:
On 2015-05-08 12:55, Jhomes wrote:
I WILL ASSUME YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE SO.... If i must repeat myself then ok, There are a handful of dreadnoughts that can damage an LS alone, but they cannot keep up the firepower long anough to get shields past 30% or so. Battle class stations also cannot defeat one as their missiles cannot deal the damage needed and if you jump up close to LS to fight it you will be able to damage it but it will always win the close fight. As i have already stated it is FACT ICC station level shields easily can regen 17k - 20k hp each second in combat, therefore a ship must be able to deal more than 17k-20k each second in combat. I am not quite sure why people insist on being intentionally dense on some of these posts.
If you had read any of these posts you would know that i said icc station level shield regen needs reduced by 25% only which would allow it to remain powerful but keep the game possible if a situation comes up as 1 icc player vs 1 player of ugto or kluth which currently LS cannot be defeated alone. NOBODY ESP ME EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SMALL SHIPS OR FRIGATES BEING ABLE TO DAMAGE ONE.
Please people i am begging you to only post on this topic if you have actually read it from begining and understand what is even being talked about here.
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Actually I've been reading this thread whenever there was a new post as I do most threads, I just don't have much to say on most subjects lately. But when there's a generalized statement like "Problem does not need to have any more examples, there should be no ship that cannot be defeated by another single ship. Nothing should have that power" you invite people to say "wut" and take it at face value.
But mostly I hadn't said anything because I've been waiting for someone to bring up the disparity in damage output between a LS and it's UGTO/K'Luth equivalents and that they can have similar defense combined with their higher damage output by sitting on a couple repair platforms, instead of just saying the LS is too hard to kill and shields need a round with the nerf bat.
Of course, there's also the statement by the dev team that it should require a minimum of 2 ships of one hull size to take out a ship 1 size higher going head to head, so why should 1 Dreadnought of any faction or any type be able to take on any Station 1 on 1? How many ICC Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a BS or Nest? How many UGTO Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a Nest? How many Luth Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a BS?
The proper way to do it would be go in beta with a few people and do a 1v1 then 2v1 of Dreadnoughts vs Stations for all 3 factions, record the results, and post them for the devs to analyze. That includes how much damage the Station is causing in return, whether any of the attackers are destroyed or how much damage they take, whether they run out of ammo before destroying or causing much damage to the Station, and energy use. Then run the tests with UGTO and Luth stations again with a repair platforms thrown in since it's a common occurrence in MV combat. Generally there's what, at least 2?
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-05-09 11:52
Quote:
On 2015-05-09 10:25, Talien wrote:
But mostly I hadn't said anything because I've been waiting for someone to bring up the disparity in damage output between a LS and it's UGTO/K'Luth equivalents and that they can have similar defense combined with their higher damage output by sitting on a couple repair platforms, instead of just saying the LS is too hard to kill and shields need a round with the nerf bat.
Of course, there's also the statement by the dev team that it should require a minimum of 2 ships of one hull size to take out a ship 1 size higher going head to head, so why should 1 Dreadnought of any faction or any type be able to take on any Station 1 on 1? How many ICC Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a BS or Nest? How many UGTO Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a Nest? How many Luth Dreadnoughts can go head to head with a BS?
The proper way to do it would be go in beta with a few people and do a 1v1 then 2v1 of Dreadnoughts vs Stations for all 3 factions, record the results, and post them for the devs to analyze. That includes how much damage the Station is causing in return, whether any of the attackers are destroyed or how much damage they take, whether they run out of ammo before destroying or causing much damage to the Station, and energy use. Then run the tests with UGTO and Luth stations again with a repair platforms thrown in since it's a common occurrence in MV combat. Generally there's what, at least 2?
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For what it may be worth, I've already pointed out (rather weakly it seems) that ICC need some degree of improvements to their weapons.
As for that statement, I will describe it as old and nearly outdated as of v1.7. I can attest to its existence atleast since v1.5, and that was when combat dreads had fighters and missiles, and support stations had fighters and missiles, and siphons had SI cannons, and there did not exist a torpedo fighter.
With reference to the now, the statement by the devteam that "Missile ships work against enemies 2 classes up, torpedo ships against 1 class up, beams same class and cannons 1 class below" comes to mind. If I'm threatening a station with a torpedo dreadnought (and I've done that plenty of times), I expect to put a big hole in the hull before I get destroyed. LS contradicts that by being able to regenerate an equivalent of 3 kluth dread core torpedoes roughly every 10 seconds. Poof goes me 40% of damage.
And the fact is, linestat is not the only one. I've mentioned somewhere that even a Strike carrier can be loaded with skirmish shields and aux shields, to the effect of fully regenerating 36 UGTO torp fighters' damage over 10 minutes. Same with pretty much every 8-shield bearing ship. Station bashing? Not quite.
Beta test is a great idea  how about tomorrow sunday at 3:00 - 5:00 p.m. GMT? I'm available this whole week.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2015-12-15 13:11
Quote:
On 2015-04-19 03:37, Jhomes wrote:
1 . Easy way to do this is simply to make it to when you turn shields "off" that they would still be surrounding ship instead of disapearing, they would just not regenerate hp anymore in the "off" mode. I know this would change a few game mechanics such as turning off shields to lower signature ect. But it is still a viable option in my opinion for game change.
2. harder way would be adding an additional option of turning the shield regeneration on and off while still keeping the seperate ability to actually turn the shields themselves on and off. While this is clearly the ideal way to do this i proposed first solution soley because it would most likely be easier to code/implement and i know that is importent somtimes.
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Old post, but the obvious hit me as I was reading this thread again.
Remember defense mode before it was turned into an OOC regen bonus when you actually had to activate it manually? Since we had a 3 stage shield toggle then it shouldn't be too hard to give shields on/off and regen on/off the same treatment. Toggle shields once, regen turns off, toggle them again they deactivate, toggle again they turn on with regen on. Seems simple enough.
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